Gog/Magog War

Gog/Magog War Can�t Happen Before the Rapture, Part 1 :: By Ron Ferguson I want to write about a matter I know there is a lot of variance about and that I feel fairly strongly about because of proper biblical exegesis. Writers on this site and elsewhere have differing views, but I have rarely seen much in the way of justification for a specific viewpoint for the topic I am going to write on. Opinions seem fixed and interpretation molded around that view. People lock their views in vaults, and they do not justify those views. I suspect a good number of people don�t read what others write, in any case. I would not say that if I did not try to read most of the articles myself. One of the key principles to any exegesis or exposition is that all conclusions must be in harmony with the rest of scripture. In order to do that, one must know what the rest of scripture says and how it links in with the whole revelation of God. The matter I wish to examine critically is the �Gog/Magog War.� Ideas fall into 3 main timeframes, and it is this area that is disputed. As to the combatants, there seems to be general agreement with verses 2 and 3 of Ezekiel 38 being understood. It is the timeframe that I want to write about. The three times given are (1) before the Rapture; that is, it could be anytime now. (2). Somewhere in the Tribulation. (3). At the end of the Tribulation as part of the whole Armageddon conflict. There has been the suggestion that this happens after the start of the Millennium, but that is so unlikely I won�t spend time on it. I am convinced thoroughly that (1) is incorrect, and I know it is the dominant view of some RR writers, and I am not writing against anyone in any way. Please continue to read this fairly and not delete. I don�t hold my position without proof, and the proof is internal. One must be able to support one�s position. With that in mind, let us look at it. 1.Welive in the day of grace when the gospel is proclaimed. It is said tobe the age of God�s silence, which means God always has control over theworld but does not intervene as He did in Noah�s time, and Sodom, and withthe destruction of the Assyrian army in Hezekiah�s time, and especially asHe will in the Tribulation. That is God in open judgment. God may have had a�behind the scenes� influence in World War 1 and WW2, but it was notopenly known or seen. In the Gog/Magog war, it most certainly will be seen.The �silence� of God belongs to the age of grace. It would be totallyinconsistent for God to intervene openly nowin the affairs of the world. 2.Israelis always the key to prophecy. It is especially so in the Ezekielaccount. Romans is very clear that these are the times of the Gentiles, andthat is where all the emphasis is. Israel is on the back burner until theGentile Church is removed, and then God takes up His people again. God willnever work with Jew and Gentile at the same time. The Gog/Magog war sees Godintervening openly for His people, and that dispensationally can�t happenthis side of the Rapture. 3.Theinternal evidence in Ezekiel 38 and 39. The internal evidence is verygreat for NO Gog war before the Rapture, and we will consider those aspectsnow. (a). 38:3-4. [[�and say, Thus says the Lord GOD, �Behold, I am against you, O Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, 4 and I will turn you about, and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords]] � God takes this initiative to bring armies to destruction. This has not happened in the age of grace and will not happen before the Rapture. It is the call and gathering of the Gog/Magog army. Right now, at the end of the Church age, we can see the beginnings of these power alignments, but that is not the war. (b). We come to verse 8. This verse is a problem for all three views of timing. [[Ezekiel 38:8 �After many days you will be summoned. In the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste, but its people were brought out from the nations and they are living securely, all of them.�]] It cannot be said today that Israel is dwelling securely. Neither is that nation �restored from the sword� with the PLO and Hezbollah firing up to 225 Iranian rockets daily into Israel. Verse 8 just cannot apply to our times. It is an impossibility. Israel is surrounded by enemies. The problem also exists possibly that near the end of the Tribulation when the forces gather for Armageddon, Israel is also not at peace. This is when I think the Gog conflict happens, along with Armageddon. It can�t really be said that the nation at that time is at peace. The only time that happens is in the Millennium when Israel is settled and restored. However, the Lord reigns from Jerusalem, and before that, there has been a judgment of the sheep and goat nations. The forces of Gog would definitely be considered goat nations and would not enter the Tribulation anyway, so they cannot be present then. (c). Another problem is found in this verse � [[Ezekiel 38:11 �and you will say, �I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls, and having no bars or gates.�]] The purpose of walls, bars and gates was to protect the city and villages. In this verse, it speaks of a time of peace in Israel, a proper peace with security, and implied no threat from any enemy. That application to our days is ludicrous, and even at the end of the Tribulation when I think this happens, is problematic. The description presupposes a fully unprotected community dwelling peacefully, BUT Israel is one of the best-protected areas in the world. Verses 8 and 11 are difficult. Maybe we are not to know exactly. The Gog/Magog war just can�t happen before the Rapture. It does not fit in any shape or form. (d). This is a critical verse � [[Ezekiel 38:14 �Therefore, prophesy, son of man, and say to Gog, �Thus says the Lord GOD, �On that day when My people Israel are living securely, will you not know it?'�]] I have recently done a series on The Day of the LORD and pointed out over and over the special importance of the statement �In/On that day,� or �At that time.� Those catch phrases always refer to the times of the end, in the Day of the LORD, AFTER the Rapture, never before. The emphasis again is on living securely. No one can say that Israel dwells securely today; otherwise, it would not have both offensive and defensive weapons in abundance possessed by Israel to protect its very existence. (e). IMPORTANT VERSE. Next, we look at this verse � [[Ezekiel 38:16 �and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It will come about in the last days that I shall bring you against My land, in order that the nations may know Me when I shall be sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog.�]] �In the last days� in the Old Testament could never have referred to the Rapture or the time before the Rapture because the Rapture was a mystery to be revealed by Paul in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and not before. The term always referred to the time just before the Second Coming. Note this wording � �My people Israel.� Go back to Hosea and read this carefully � [[Hosea 1:8-9 �When she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived and gave birth to a son, and the LORD said, �Name him Lo-ammi, for �you are not My people and I am not your God.��]] Then we move along with the most important conjunction, which is �Yet.� [[Hosea 1:10 �Yet the number of the sons of Israel will be like the sand of the sea which cannot be measured or numbered and it will come about that, in the place where it is said to them, �You are not My people,� it will be said to them, �You are the sons of the living God.��]] The change is there from �Not My people� to �You are the sons of God.� Ezekiel 38:16 uses �My people Israel,� the same aspect of this Hosea verse � [[Hosea 2:23 �I will sow her for Myself in the land. I will also have compassion on her who had not obtained compassion, and I will say to those who were not My people, �You are My people,� and they will say, �You are my God.'�]] Israel does not become �You are My people� in the converted state until after the Second Coming. In the relationship sense today, Israel is �not My people,� though in the general sense they are the earthly people of God. There is one more verse to consider in the Hosea passage that throws so much light on this subject. It is this one � [[Hosea 1:11 �The sons of Judah and the sons of Israel will be gathered together, and they will appoint for themselves one leader, and they will go up from the land, for great will be the day of Jezreel.�]] That verse just quoted is where redeemed Israel will appoint one Leader, which we know will be the Messiah after the Second Coming. After their restoration, they will be restored as His people, just as Hosea and Ezekiel 38:16 teaches. What is the reason for this? It is stated, and it is this, �for great will be the day of Jezreel.� Jezreel is the valley that contains the hill �Har Megiddo,� which is Armageddon. It is Armageddon that is the great day and spells the deliverance for Israel from the Gog forces, and AFTER that, Israel can be termed as �My people� in the greatest affection. See too, that expression �in the last days,� and as it occurs in the Old Testament, it can only mean the last days of the AGE leading into the Second Coming (same usage as in Matthew 24:1). In the New Testament, when Paul speaks of the last days, as in 2 Timothy 3, he means the last days of the CHURCH AGE, which is right now. Through God�s dramatic destruction of the Gog alliance, the nations will know God, and He will be sanctified through what happens in Israel. That just cannot happen at this time before the Rapture. It would be totally out of place. Israel currently is �not My people.� So great will be Armageddon that the nations will know God and His mighty works. ------------------------------------- Gog/Magog War Can't Happen Before the Rapture, Part 2 - By Ron Ferguson - https://www.raptureready.com/2022/03/13/gog-magog-war-cant-happen-before-the-rapture-part-2-by-ron-ferguson/ In Part 1, we began looking through Ezekiel 38 and 39 in detail, showing that the internal evidence cannot possibly support any Gog/Magog invasion of Israel before the Rapture. It would turn all prophecy against itself and create such confusion. We will see how that invasion happens just before the Second Coming. Now for Part 2. (f). Now take note of this as well. God’s fury mounts up in His anger when Gog is in Israel, and there will be blazing wrath. You who think the Gog war must be before the Rapture, how can you say that with this apocalyptic language that just does not belong to this age of grace. The great earthquake could very well be connected with the one that is coming – Revelation 16:18 (quoted in the next reference (g).) (g). HONESTLY LET’S BE REAL. Consider this verse – Tell me, is this going to be the case BEFORE the Rapture? This is what is going to happen when God rises against Gog/Magog. A God in judgment and blazing wrath is NOT God before the Rapture. A Gog war before the Rapture is an impossibility. Every wall falling down and mountains collapsing are connected with the earthquake of (h). LET’S KEEP BEING REAL. Consider these verses – Who among those who think there is a Gog war before the Rapture can justify the section I have underlined? All that apocalyptic language is NOT of our age. It is post-Rapture. It is God in open display. This war cannot be before the Rapture. Why do people believe such a thing? Why is there an entrenched opinion that is not open to scrutiny? The same principle applies to Matthew 24. (i). That is God in openness with judgment. Just further proof it is post-Rapture. GOD TAKES UP ISRAEL’S CAUSE AFTER THE RAPTURE. The predatory birds parallel this reference to Armageddon at the Second Coming, as we have just had – (j). That thing will not happen before the Rapture. That is judgment and wrath from heaven, not of the Church age. (k). ANOTHER CONCLUSIVE PROOF – The Lord WILL NOT MAKE KNOWN HIS NAME TO HIS PEOPLE ISRAEL BEFORE THE RAPTURE so that His Name is profaned no longer. The Church must be removed first before He takes up His people again. God never works with the Church and Israel at the same time. A redeemed Israel WILL NOT HAPPEN this side of the Rapture, and in fact, it will not be until after the Second Coming. Look at these statements (a) God will make His Name known among His people in Israel. That will not happen before the Second Coming (which ends the Tribulation). Read the last few chapters of Zechariah. That is a strong reason for placing Gog right at the end of the Tribulation. (b) God will not allow His Holy Name to be profaned anymore. That would be an utter impossibility if the Gog war was pre-Rapture because after the Rapture come the great blasphemies of the world leader and False Prophet, and by the people of the earth. Look at these – Those blasphemies will continue right up until the Battle of Armageddon when these two evil men are removed to the lake of fire. When God says He will NOT let His name be profaned anymore, it would have to be after the Gog war (Ezek 39:7). Every true student of prophecy knows that would be an utter impossibility before the Rapture. That can only happen after the Second Coming. If the Gog war was to happen before the events of Revelation 16 (see verse above), then God’s word would be speaking lies. The Gog war has to be after Revelation 16! (c) The nations will know that God is JEHOVAH, the Holy One in Israel. (l). Most certainly, this is referring to the Day of the LORD. It is that day, and God spoke about it often. The Day of the LORD does not begin until after the Rapture. (m). Now we come to the cleansing of the land, Gog’s burial and the Lord’s glory. Surely it is painfully obvious here that God is not going to glorify Himself to Israel before their restoration, and He does that with Gog’s destruction. This is in line with the latter chapters of Zechariah. Their (Israel’s) restoration will come when He sets up His kingdom on the earth and He is glorified in Israel. There is NO WAY these things happen in the Church age. It is so incorrect to maintain that the Gog war can be anytime now. It cannot happen while the Church is still on earth. Please, people, think into these things. The Jews will be very busy cleansing their land after this war, and they know that it is God who delivered them who has glorified Himself in Israel. (n). Then will come the call to all the scavengers of the earth to feed on the corpses of the Gog alliance scattered all through the land of Israel. The passage is verses 17-20, but here is verse 17 – Again, for the purpose of emphasis, compare the parallel passage in Revelation, which is just after the great Battle of Armageddon in which Gog has a part – Those two verses go together so closely. Gog must be part of the Revelation 19 great conflict where the frog spirits have assembled all the nations for war. It is not feasible that this could happen now in the land with the way it is. This happens at the Second Coming, and the first 7 months at least will be spent in cleaning up the land. To be continued in Part 3. ------------------------------- Gog/Magog War Can�t Happen Before the Rapture, Part 3 - By Ron Ferguson - https://www.raptureready.com/2022/03/22/gog-magog-war-cant-happen-before-the-rapture-part-3-by-ron-ferguson/ In Parts 1 and 2, we began looking through Ezekiel 38 and 39 in detail, showing that the internal evidence cannot possibly support any Gog/Magog invasion of Israel before the Rapture. It would turn all prophecy against itself and create such confusion. We will see how that invasion happens just before the Second Coming. My conclusion is that it has to be at or just before the Second Coming, and those reasons I have been exploring. I know there are varying views, but it is important for me that all fits carefully and not with bits poking out. (o). LOOK MOST CAREFULLY AT THESE VERSES � These are critical verses and destroy the position of those who want to continue with the fallacy of the Gog war being this side of the Rapture. If the Gog war happens just after the Rapture, as some think, verse 22 above could not possibly fit. Look at the wording of that verse. Once the Gog war happens, then �the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God FROM THAT DAY ONWARD� would be all through the Tribulation, and that is an utter impossibility. We are speaking of the Restoration of Israel here, and that does not happen before the Second Coming. Therefore, the Gog war happens just before and at the Second Coming. Lock in other verses from Ezekiel, and we know the LORD is with His people in righteousness, having been redeemed. There is NO WAY God will set His glory before the nations in our time. The next thing on God�s calendar is the Rapture, not the unveiling of His Glory! It tells us the nations will see His glory and His judgment on Gog that His hand has executed. The Church age is the silence of God in national declarations. The next verse, 22, is even more striking. The house of Israel will know that Jehovah is their Messiah from that very time of Gog�s destruction, and forever. That is what verse 22 affirms. You can�t twist it. It is an absolute impossibility in this, the Church age. To say so is so wrong. It can only make sense if the Gog war happens right before the Second Coming, and at that Coming, the great war of Armageddon happens. The Gog conflict is part of the Armageddon war along with the forces of Antichrist and the kings of the east. (p). Now we have a summary proof of this great conflict and the outcome of it. There is overwhelming proof again that it can�t be before the Rapture. The LORD explains His position and what happens from Gog�s defeat onwards � Verse 24. God hid His face from Israel because of their rebellion and sinfulness. That will continue through to the Rapture as taught by Romans 11 in the olive tree. That fact cannot be disputed. The Jews will not be grafted back until the Gentile Church shoots are removed in the Rapture. That cannot be disputed from Romans 11. The verses above also refute the idea of a war just after the Rapture. When you look at 24-27 and what is described there, you cannot possibly say this happens at the start of the Tribulation. The fortunes of Israel will not be restored until the Messiah comes to dwell with His people after the Second Coming. In verse 26, �they shall forget their disgrace and all their treachery,� that just will not be any part of the Tribulation. Israel will have a tough time in the Tribulation. Verse 25. Note carefully the �Now,� which is the first word God speaks in verse 25. It connects with the defeat of Gog for the two chapters are progressive. THEN God will restore the fortunes of Jacob/Israel. We know that will happen at the Second Coming when Jesus returns to Olivet and regathers the Jews and restores their fortune and Kingdom, over which He reigns as Messiah. The Kingdom is not going to be set up this side of the Rapture (this side of the Second Coming), so to teach of a Gog invasion of Israel at any time is just so wrong. We need proper exegesis of each Bible verse in this chapter to see that. Verse 26. God will wipe away all disgrace and guilt from Israel. The prophets teach this very clearly, as they do with the restoration of Israel�s fortunes. It says there they will live securely on their land, and no one will make them afraid. This does NOT happen now, and it will NOT happen in the Tribulation. It can only happen in the Millennium. Therefore, the God/Magog war happens immediately before the Second Coming, and then Messiah establishes the nation of Israel securely in its own land. It all happens logically. Verse 27. Israel is restored and brought back from many lands, back to the land of Israel. I have done a series on �The Restoration of Israel� on Rapture Ready, where all the Old Testament passages for restoration were done. It is on this Rapture site. God will be sanctified before restored Israel in the sight of the nations. Israel restored, glorified, and the nations know, and that is at the start of the Millennium, but all this has proceeded from the Gog war. It can only happen just before the Second Coming, and that is where this account fits exactly. The verses just done show clearly the timeframe for the Gog war, and that absolutely excludes the very wrong notion that it has to be/could be in our time, before the Rapture (and soon after the Rapture). Before anyone promotes the wrong notion of a now Gog/Magog war, read all of Ezekiel 38 and 39 carefully, looking at the context. (q). AND IF THERE IS STILL ANY RESERVATION � then study these last two verses � This is what verses 28 and 29 are teaching us. Verse 28. When will Israel know that the LORD is their God? Well, it certainly won�t be before the Rapture or even in the Tribulation. It will be when Messiah returns to the nation. The nation will weep over Him, and they will know Him. That happens just after the Second Coming when the Lord gathers them to their own land (verse 28 above). Just after the Gog destruction, Israel will know the LORD, and His Name will be among His people � Ezekiel 38 and 39 teach that most clearly. Israel does not know the Messiah until He comes in the Second Coming to destroy the Gog forces about to strangle Jerusalem described in Zechariah 12 and 14. Verse 29. No more will the Lord be absent from Israel but dwells as their Messiah-King forever. They shall be with Him and see Him. God will pour out His Spirit on Israel exactly in line with what Joel teaches in detail, where the Spirit is poured out when Israel is redeemed and settled gloriously in its own land. It is impossible that that will happen before the Second Coming, and in NO way before the Rapture. [[Joel 3:1 �For behold, in those days and at that time when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will gather all the nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat [That is Armageddon]. Then I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and they have divided up My land.�]] That is Armageddon, and it is there in that great battle that Gog and Magog will have their role. That is not going to happen twice. The Gog forces will enter Jerusalem as we have here � The next two verses from Joel speak about the Spirit being poured out on Israel, AND THAT IS IN LINE WITH Underneath, Joel clearly states that when the Spirit is poured out, then Israel will never again be put to shame. WHAT? So Israel is perfectly redeemed and shameless and purified all throughout the Tribulation? [which is the case if the Gog conflict is before the Rapture or a bit after]. We know that is not so. This happens just after the Second Coming. Please read through Joel � all of it. [The pouring out of the Spirit here on the redeemed Jews is the same as EZEKIEL 39 VERSE 29] NONE OF THESE GLORIOUS EVENTS CAN HAPPEN before the Lord�s return for the restoration of Israel. The Gog war is linked so closely with the Second Coming, as I have tried to show, so the only logical conclusion is that it must immediately precede the Second Coming. The Gog/Magog War. Those who say it is pre-Rapture are VERY WRONG. It is ludicrous to think such things that are so contrary to the Bible. This is because set ideas are passed along without any examination. I lament the lack of proper teaching and exegetical preaching from the ministers and pastors of churches. I have tried to examine the subject to show it just cannot happen before the Second Coming after the 7 years� Tribulation. Of course, it is legitimate now to see developments happening as a possible groundwork being laid for the invasion at the time of Armageddon. For example, Russia has established a military base in Syria. Putin has expansionist aims. If you think I am wrong about the timing, then defend your position and show my timing is incorrect. I am not being arrogant at all but seek scriptural truth, and I am open to documented argument. If anyone thinks the Gog war has to be before the Rapture, then prove it from Ezekiel 38 and 39, and refute each of my arguments. I only wish for correct exegesis. The same thing applies to Matthew 24 when I wrote to prove it is not the Rapture in any way. No refutation was given to me. God bless you all. We are in the last days of the Church age, but in the �last days� (of human government), we will be in heaven while the horrible Tribulation plays out on earth. Blessings Ron ronaldf@aapt.net.au WE ARE ON THE LAST PAGE OF THE CURRENT CHURCH AGE We have concluded, the world is deluded. It struggles to find the right course. Men don�t understand what�s the lie of the land, And don�t know what things to endorse. Extinguish the light, then impaired is the sight, So incorrect things they enforce. God is abolished; decency demolished, And for evil, there�s no remorse. Good now is compressed; what�s righteous is transgressed. That�s part of the nation�s downturn. All too rapidly we have hugged apathy, And people no longer discern. Our leaders are weak; they are no longer meek; Anything godly they adjourn. We know in review that the Bible stands true. To its truths, people must return. In darkness men grope, while they�re looking for hope, Because they live in sin�s dark blight. The heart that is cold is unable to hold The truths that we clasp to be right. God�s seeking repentance to end the sentence Of man�s journey into death�s night. One true Bible verse says that things will get worse, For men love darkness, not the light. Like a sharp prickle in man�s self-made pickle, The Christian is one they besmear. The righteous they hate, and their goodness castrate; To Satan�s rule they adhere. The world�s in decline; wickedness they enshrine, But it�s God the Christians revere We�re are on the last page of the present Church age; Don�t be deceived by false veneer. R E Ferguson January 2022 ronaldf@aapt.net.au